Bending principles for the sake of gender critical trans allies risks splitting the movement and undermining the message.
In the Bible, the world ends when the first four of seven seals open and four horsemen ride out with the creepy monikers of Pestilence, Famine. War and Death. Something similar is happening in the gender critical community right now with an internal rift that could bring an end to our credibility and effectiveness. Our horsemen don’t sound nearly as bad as those biblical dudes, but like those four horsemen of the Bible, these four have come to represent familiar reminders of popular cultural role models that most of us in the western world understand and even feel comforted by. And, they have the potential to be just as apocalyptic.
These four share some characteristics that make them ‘good trans’ and allies to some important gender critical activists. For example, all are prominent individuals who claim ‘trans’ as their identities, but all are, to some extent, gender-critical themselves – that is, they acknowledge that they have not actually changed sex. They oppose trans-ing children. They’re concerned about women’s and girls’ rights. That’s great, but as gender-critical women, we cannot be in the business of sorting “trans” people into “good trans” and “bad trans” or aligning ourselves in a serious way with allies who themselves are walking, talking contradictions to what we claim to be analysing under a critical lens. We have to remember that these individuals are merely thinking and feeling that they need to medicalize themselves and more dangerously for all of us, that they believe that there are also “trans” children under 18 who may actually be better off being given puberty blockers and medicalised in order to find peace with themselves.
Let that one sink in.
The minute we do this, we have implicitly bought the legal fiction that is “tran”’ at all. And when you scratch the surface, it becomes clear that these particular folks are viewed as ‘good’ for reasons that corrode our credibility out of existence. They fulfil stereotypical ideas of what men and women should really be, so that we end up buying that they’re the real thing: ‘true’ ‘trans’—presumably as opposed to those AGP fetishists, non-passing fakes, predators, narcissists and confused teenagers who aren’t the real thing. Which means we’re right back to a basic belief in gender stereotypes as a valid system for understanding what it means to be male or female. This is the gender-critical apocalypse. Whatever struggles these people have or are experiencing, they of course have the right to how they have dealt – and still do – deal with it. But the propping up and even a kind of religiosity and adoration that has arisen needs to stop now. The tweet praises, the artwork dedicated to them – it needs to stop.
Having personal experience living as a gender non-conforming lesbian for over fifty years myself, and as someone who was on the psychological tract over 30 years ago to undergo what I thought would be a ‘sex change’, I know it’s risky but feel the time is right to call this critical moment out for what it is. We’ve all been groomed and we need to recognize that. So to make my point really clear, I’ve chosen to compare these individuals to the prominent familiar dolls found in our very gendered pop culture:
Barbie = Woman: Blaire White
With his porn-actress exterior, hyper-feminized mannerisms and silicone breasts coupled with a simple diary-approach to facing the camera, this effeminate gay man became a marketing genius by choosing the perfect timing to jump into YouTube culture. He has garnered millions of monetized views and likes to occasionally remind us that “it costs A LOT of money to look like this.” He’s been grooming women and men of all sexual orientations since 2015 to buy into his model of performing a socially acceptable form of femininity. Much of his early focus was on ripping into feminism and spouting politically conservative views while focusing on hair flipping and lip puckering.
While he was building his fan base, a whole slew of truly heinous men-in-bad-drag-behaving-badly erupted in public, and that piqued his interest. Specifically, Blaire viewed men like J Yaniv as inferior to himself, both because they were morally repellant and because they (unlike himself) failed to achieve a visually passing, heteronormative appearance.
By doing this, Blaire gathered a large new audience of gender-critical women, such as those on the Gender Critical Radical Feminists Facebook page, where members frequently post Blaire’s videos with comments like, “I wish more men would listen to her.”
But beyond admitting he’s still technically male, what makes Blaire White an ally? He embodies the twin fictions that acceptable femininity = stereotyped, hyper-sexualized and silicone-pumped Barbie-woman, and the idea that gender-dysphoric people can and should seek happiness through medical and surgical (at least above the waist) transformation. We should not be saying yes to this. As Blaire is famous for saying, “Not today honey.”
Ken = Man: Scott Newgent
A mother of three young children, ‘Kelly’, aka Scott apparently never received the memo that the rest of us did regarding the life-threatening nature of the surgical procedure for getting a fake dick attached to our bodies. Her first operation went wildly bad and now she wants to warn the world that it’s not safe for kids to be subjected to the dangerous surgeries and bad surgeons that are out there.
In fact, she believes that only ‘trans’ people can save women and children from… well…’trans’ people. So on July 3, 2020, sporting her cowboy hat and good ole ‘boy’ white knight attitude, she launched a GoFundMe campaign to gather other medically transitioned adults and head from the U.S. to the U.K. on a multi-city tour. The plan was to ‘educate’ the public about the evils of the organisation Mermaids, which promotes (among other things) the medical and surgical transition of minors. The campaign raised almost $10,000 before failing to secure major sponsorship. On top of not securing any sponsorship, the fantastic news we received recently that Mermaids has had to change their tune as the UK has moved against self-I.D., Scott is now found waving her cowboy hat no more.
What’s interesting is that now that she’s dropped her campaign, where will all that money go?
It’s always a clue when people who do fundraisers decide not to mention anything about the raised funds when they’ve fallen short.
While some gender critical women have been quick to embrace Scott as a ‘good’ ‘trans’ ally, she remains a problematic figure. While she opposes ‘trans-ing’ minors, she still believes that transition can be appropriate for those 18 and up. Because she, like a lot of “trans” people still believes that gender identity is real, so for some people (like her) getting medical assistance to gaslight people that you are the opposite sex can make you feel better if you suffer from (in her case) internalized misogyny to the nth degree. In a recent interview with a youtuber, Scott even admits that when she’s leaving her house sometimes, she feels like she’s “a liar”.
Also, in her case, like Blaire White above, gender is a matter of conventional stereotypes. Gender-critical women seem to view Scott as ‘true trans’ because of her conventionally handsome appearance, smidgen of beard stubble, and a ‘masculine-enough’ body, and then – there’s that dick. We shouldn’t and can’t be going along with that. We should instead be celebrating those rare women unafraid to demonstrate the range of expression and presentation of what it can mean to be a woman. The very authentic tension that only non-conforming lesbian women carry creates a confidence that needs no medical intervention to prove anything, and to medicalize this is to surrender to the danger of gender once again.
The Barbie Wannabe: Fionne Orlander
Poor guy. He’s simply a gay man who is so effeminate that nothing would make him happier than to be a princess. His presence on Twitter is a mixed bag – he admits he’s a man, but insists on identifying as ‘trans’. He sells himself as a ‘good’ ‘trans’ person who can be trusted and who sometimes stands up for women against troll transactivists, in contrast with the ‘bad’ ‘trans’ people who want to hurt women and children by invading their spaces.
He’s obtained a bevy of gender critical women followers who pour positive ‘feels’ on him. They also circle the wagons of cyber-motherly affection any time he gets cruel troll treatment.
In a particularly unpleasant instance where an online meanie opined that Fionne’s face ‘looked like a brick’, Fionne was hit hard by the criticism and chose to react by creating a crowdfunder to raise £25,500 so that he could obtain the surgical procedure known as Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS).
In his own words, “The massively expensive target price will cover my jaw, chin, brow, nose & hairline to be softened & in one fowl(sic) swoop I feel like 80% of my dysphoria would be dealt with.”
This crowdfunder was launched on July 4, 2020, one day after Scott launched her anti-Mermaids effort — which, however misguided – was at least arguably aimed at a more laudable goal of saving children from genital mutilation, rather than helping a male insecure about his face, redo himself into the western, white, male-gazed ideal of a ‘real’ female face. Fionne only wants what Blaire already achieved, and so why shouldn’t his fans all help foot the bill for that ‘cause’?
The results of the crowdfunders’ efforts came fast and almost competitively furiously on Twitter. The concern for Fionne’s desired beauty was more intense than for Scott’s effort. From some revered GC thinkers of note, we watched as permission was turned over as so:
By the time the weekend was over, the two fundraisers had exposed the split in the GC community between fans of Fionne and the much smaller following that Scott has. The conflict did real damage, destroying previously strong bonds between women, both online and in real life. Those who would argue (as I do) that these urges to donate financially to either beggar wrecks our credibility.
GI Joe meets Care Bear: Susan “Buck” Angel
Maybe more than any other prominent ’trans’ person who believes she was literally trapped in the wrong body, Buck Angel has attained the status of almost a religious icon for some in the gender-critical community. The obvious reason is her occasionally tweeting of statements as a ‘gender critical ‘trans’. Similar to Scott attempting to play the role of a ‘rescuer’ of women and children, Buck has recently been choosing to go a similar route in her social media presence, and it’s helped keep her popularity afloat.
But 25 years ago as myself a member of the very large lesbian community in the San Francisco Bay Area, I watched as ‘Susan’ became ‘Buck’ who I would say was a handsome gender non-conforming lesbian. As she appeared to distance herself both politically and socially from that community, she instead chose to become one of the first medical experiments of what we now know as a very specific agenda instigated by big pharma funding. Although Buck never got ‘bottom surgery’ she altered her exterior with body building and cross hormones. She was often making appearances on stage and seen flexing her new façade with her Tom of Finland look she attained. She not only successfully inserted herself into the gay male porn world which had a large home in the famous gay Castro District, but her PR campaign of exposure effectively resulted in a certain percentage of younger gender non-conforming lesbians seeing this look as a cool fad. This fad became enough of a social contagion that was timed with the more public access to obtaining testosterone.
Some background: By 1986, gone was the more traditional slower (2 year) process for ‘transitioning’, and an explosion of and decimation of lesbian culture along the west coast began. So rampant was the push for big pharma to secure new victims that I myself was approached in the early 90’s while standing outside a dyke pop-up bar with other gender non-conformers and we were offered testosterone in pill form in small blue cannisters. I knew this was war coming at my community, and I mistakenly thought that lesbians were the only target. Now we all see what even Buck did not see then. None of us knew they would come for the kids.
But in 2020 Buck is viewed as an elder and styles herself as the wise ‘Tranpa’. With her musculature, trucker’s hat, tattoos and leathers, she has managed the delicate balance of emanating physical threat — spit and fire — as well as putting on a cute and even cuddly persona so that she can avoid scaring her main followers too much.
But the GC women who love Buck’s act are forgetting some crucial points. When this former lesbian opted to transform her body and pretend to be something else – some hybrid of sexuality via medicalization of her precious body – this was far from solving the problem we now face. She was (and remains) a big part of helping normalize the idea of FtM (female-to-male) medical and surgical transition.
Second, Buck’s newfound ‘gender critical’ Save The Children posture seems more connected with a love of publicity than anything else. This is someone who sought out the spotlight 25 years ago, and she’s never stopped wanting to bathe in that glow. To sustain popularity, one has to stay in tune with shifting public currents and find the right moments and messages for being talked about and looked at.
Finally, Buck’s gender-critical cheering section overlooks the fact that Buck was a porn performer who takes positions that are, or should be, repellent to us. As they’re busy honoring her with tributes like this…
…Buck’s hard at work helping defend Pornhub against criticism by Rose Kalemba, a young woman whose rape at age 14 was filmed and showed up for sale on Pornhub where it was screened for men all over the world. The BBC did a story on this and Ms. Kalemba’s life has been put at risk as a result of her attempts to shut Pornhub down once and for all because she’s learned of other girls younger than herself that this has happened to.
A Pornhub performer named Valentina Nappi tweeted against Ms. Kalemba. ‘Tranpa’ chose to insert herself in this twitter fight with potentially harmful financial and political implications to herself, and she rushed to the cyber-side of Ms. Nappi to join in against Ms. Kalemba with this (now deleted) tweet:
Gender-critical women, when you give props to Buck Angel or view her as an ally, remember the moment she sided with the country’s wealthiest, most powerful porn site against an exploited, 14-year old rape victim.
It needs to stop
It is time to stop idolizing people who represent the opposite of what we stand for. This is a fight for the survival of the gender critical movement. There is no such thing as ‘good’ or ‘bad’ ‘trans’, and there certainly is no such thing as a ‘true trans’ individual. Put slightly differently, we must mean what we say.
- We say that gender identity is a fiction and sex is real – so we cannot behave as if that’s true for everyone except these beloved four horsemen and other ‘trans’ figures like them who seem to be “true trans.” That makes us liars and hypocrites.
- We say that gender itself is false, wrong and oppressive. So we cannot behave as if ‘passing’ with stereotypically gendered looks is life affirming in a way we can align with. That makes us liars and hypocrites.
- We say that ‘trans-ing’ children and teenagers Is child abuse. So we can’t champion people who continue promoting the message that medical or surgical transition made them happier and saved their lives. That makes us liars and hypocrites.
- We oppose ‘transgenderism’ yet these people still claim to have a ‘transgender’ identity. No one should be claiming a ‘trans’ identity. No one. And if anyone does while also claiming to be ‘gender critical’, they are lying. If we are championing them, that makes us liars and hypocrites.
Bottom line: these identities are fictions. Gender-criticals cannot be so desperate for allies that we prop up icons who represent everything we oppose, from exterior looks at the extremes of gender ideology to cheerleading for Pornhub. We cannot ignore it any longer. We are in a fight for our credibility and our humanity. It’s that simple. We talk a lot about ‘grooming’ in feminism, but we’ve been grooming ourselves to accept ‘trans’ allies who say what we want to hear, and it needs to stop. It’s time to think critically, put the four horsemen out to pasture and live up to what we know is true.
Posted by Sam
4 February, 2022 at 8:54 am
"We say that ‘trans-ing’ children and teenagers Is child abuse. So we can’t champion people who continue promoting the message that medical or surgical transition made them happier and saved their lives. That makes us liars and hypocrites." No it doesn't. There are a lot of things people think are acceptable for adults, but not kids, such as alcohol and sex.
Posted by goldstar
2 January, 2022 at 1:53 am
Thank you, Joey.
Everything is very open with a clear explanation of the issues. It was truly informative. Your site is useful. Thank you for sharing!
Posted by Girl Interrupted
14 November, 2020 at 5:45 am
All these people have asked for money online and all clearly cultivate attention, even Fairy Fionne. Any middle aged woman who attempted to have the same platform could look forward to mockery, intimidation and cancellation for saying that women aren't "vulva havers" and women don't have penises. It's very clear that these are four manufactured personas that still carry more weight than just any unvarnished woman who dares to speak the truth about material reality. That's the difference.
Posted by Don Smith
20 October, 2020 at 4:23 pm
Whether people like it or not, compliance is not kindness. Understanding is not comprehension. And those who's behaviour would harm women, children and LGB community, are neither Gender Critical ambassadors or allies. The Four Horsemen will deliver to impressionable minds with one hand and bring a wrecking ball to them with the other two they had surgically grafted to their posthuman bodies. On kindness, in this article, Joey is kind, she just isn't compliant. Clearly knowledgeable, she fully comprehends the stakes, interlaced movements, matters at hand and players in the game. However, on understanding, here it is surely Joey who is to be understood and not the other way around. As an intelligent, veteran activist, radical feminist and gender critical butch lesbian, she refuses to bow, understudy, monetise, support, affirm, respect, stay quiet or otherwise acquiesce to the platforms created by Buck Angel, Scott Nugent or anyone else whose self harm, or other well documented Gender Conformist behaviours demonstrate that it is THEY who have no standing as influencers or ambassadors within the Gender Critical or feminist movements. As for those on the fence about alliances with 'wrong 'uns' and still considering whether there can be 'good' and 'bad' trans... Consider, "as an ideology can there be 'good' and 'bad' misogyny, or 'good' and 'bad' enslavement..?" Your answer is right there. Further, this is not a 'love-in'. 'Undertones of anger' and 'politeness' be damned. We're talking about changing our fundamental comprehension of humanity as we know it. All to match that of understanding of postmodernist queer theory and its faith based doctrines. I'm genuinely sorry if this reality makes Scott or Buck sad, they deserve our compassion. However, this article isn't about them. It's about the entirety of what those who share their ideology deliver in the 'Gender Critical' name. The harmful behaviours our community then perpetuated and the narrative and direction this fight has been taken as a result. Whether they like it or not, the fox cannot 'size-up' the chicks, then be given prop's. for guarding the henhouse. This discourse has needed your brand of gangsta since Judith Butler learned to spell the words 'Postmodernist Wordsalad.'
Posted by Alan Andrew
18 October, 2020 at 4:45 pm
I am grateful for a solid article that helps my understanding of a complex issue. As a male whose nature mostly aligns with the gender role, I have an extremely difficult time making my objections to gender understood, on the one hand, and by the same token (ha ha), I have a hard time following a conversation that necessarily starts in places I have never been and cannot go. I do not think of myself as a male 'ally' of gender criticism and radical feminism, although i am radically in agreement. At 63, I see my adult life as a trail of gender repression, both experienced and committed. I see my adolescence as a terrible period of gender abuse, the cramming of a wide open beautiful child into a tiny and stupid gender box. In memory, I watch that child enlist for the gender abuse of others less fortunate in the alignment of their natures with the stereotypes, and wish again that I could cry. I also do not think the purpose of gender criticism and radical feminism is to set men like me free, but I think it is the best and only hope for my sons and grandsons. Salute. "No one 'transitions,' they change their sex markers to conform to gender." Jennifer Bilek, above First, be who you are. You are not a soul trapped in a body, you are a body with an awareness of itself and its world. Limiting your perception and response to this world by imposing gender on yourself, with all its idiot rules and expectations, is de facto mutilation. By any means necessary, reject the gender expectations for your sexual biology. And while you're at it, reject the gender expectations for those whose sexual biology is the complement of your own. Failing to fit one stereotype does not justify hacking yourself up to fit the other one. That's right, biology is binary, but you are not. You did not invent sexual biology, it's not your fault. Be who you are. Strength, courage, generosity, self control, kindness, caring, patience; these emerge with time from a joy of life through trials won, not from muscles, not from breasts. Mutilating yourself chemically or surgically is prima facia self hate. Having done so, you have my sympathy from the heart, but yours is by definition unfit counsel for young people trying to escape the pressures of gender conformity. Get on board, by all means, offer your testimony, offer your funds, but do not monetize your self-mutilation and call it alliance. Yours was not a 'successful' transition, it was a denial of your being, your self, that ended in tragedy for the person you could and should have been. So was my acceptance of, and adherence to, my gender role, 'normal' though it may have looked to you. I love our people, all our people, but there are choices that limit our effectiveness as spokesfolks. Radical feminism was right when I was wrong: about gender roles, about a lot of things. My late conversion, no matter how sincere, does not give me a right to snatch their microphone.
Scott, you and your faux sadness about humanity, while continuing to speak out of both sides of your mouth (“kids, medically conforming to sex-role stereotypes is BAD but it worked for me & might work for you when you’re older”) would be chewed alive in France, where intense discourse (what you call attacks) are a daily national sport. Somehow everyone survives over there, even through heated arguments. No one melts into whining pile of victimhood over their duplicitousness being called out. They argue their case or accept responsibility. Grow a spine. There is a lot more at stake here than your sadness. The massive amount of young lesbians swallowing their self-hatred and internalized homophobia and the surgeons standing by to cut their flesh for them, while the rest of the world stand idly by need strong, unequivocal voices and role models in other women who will not cave to this cultural craze - Or women who have unwound themselves from it and can speak from a place of empowerment. You are still locked in with all fours. My compassion for your position ends the minute you set yourself up as a spokesperson for helping children out of this.
It's amazing how an oppressed people (Lesbians and women) are chastised for saying no to whoever is invading or harming us. Saying no and describing the elaborate cons that take in too many women isn't "attacking." It's defending Lesbians, women, girls....
I am deeply saddened by human beings. This article and some of these comments have made me ashamed of being a human. Shame on people that think attacking people makes them superior and gets their point across.
Posted by Lumi
24 January, 2022 at 10:02 pm
Rather than taking this to heart as some kind of personal attack, Scott, why not think through the logic of, say, an adult who is a practicing (rather than recovered) anorexic doing a TED talk to an audience of eating-disordered teens on how 'terrible' it is to be anorexic. Or an adult smoking while telling kids to 'do as I say not as I do', and not to smoke. I'm sure that even you can see that this would be somewhat counter-productive? I definitely understand dysphoria on a personal level, but I don't like to see grown- up women deferring to either trans-identified males, or transitioned females, the way I've seen it SO many times online. Women in general have been so conditioned to defer to men that some of us cannot seem to help it even with the hint of a deep voice or stubble, it seems- and I feel that it's people who (like me) worked THROUGH dysphoria without attempt at transition who- perhaps- send a more positive message to kids who think they're 'trans' than people who jumped on the transition train and went all the way. I personally wish you only good things, but I also find it hard to reconcile how you'd fit in a movement critical of sex(ist) stereotypes and the myth of 'transition'.
Thank you so much for this article, Joey. I so agree. Trying to find a "good" man pretending to be a woman or Lesbian is like trying to find any other kind of "exceptional/unicorn" man who still continues oppressing females. Men going anywhere near identifying as women or Lesbians simply makes them extremely harmful to all females, just as women identifying as male is harmful to all girls and women. They are participating in the cult that is founded on a lie. It needs to be said no to on every level. Once a woman accepts that "transgender" actually exists, she's signed on to the cult. It's also the same old trap of women being do desperate to find a good man that they make one up. The reason so many women betray girls and women by championing these men, is because they do know they really are men. Few women support real women like this, beyond all common sense.
Well done Joey, and Dan for publishing. This article follows on well from Dr Em's history of feminism series, especially the attempted eradication of Lesbians in gay culture. Thanks to Jennifer Bilek for supporting. Of course we are all being groomed, it takes an article like this to make us stop and realise it. As I supplied the cartoons, I will just say, as an artist, that I have zero control over how anyone chooses to use, refer to, or comment on, my artwork. I put my art out into the public domain, and all I can ask, which I do on my website, is that anyone using it credits me as the artist. That's all any artist can hope for.
Posted by Berco
5 October, 2020 at 2:39 pm
Excellent article and right on points about being consistent if we want to defend and preserve women's, children's and lesbian rights which are horrifically at risk by the trans/gender identity cult. There is no "meanness" here. The people JB mentions are all public figures, "influencers" and we have a right to critique anyone who has set themselves up to influence particularly vulnerable adolescents, many female and lesbian, who see sympathetic "trans" on social media being admired and thus become groomed to believe changing your sex with toxic drugs and surgeries is really o.k. This article is an important part of our female struggle against the power of the male/patriarchal insanity which has swept in in a new form of a men's rights movement. Humans cannot change sex, there is no transitioning from one sex to the other. Thank you UCG for publishing what you do, and thus bringing some semblance of balance to this contentious debate.
Posted by Trish Oliver
4 October, 2020 at 7:49 pm
Your words ring true Joey Brite. "Bottom line: these identities are fictions. ... We are in a fight for our credibility and our humanity. It’s that simple. " It is that simple..We all have to have the courage to draw and hold the Line.
Posted by Max Frances
4 October, 2020 at 12:36 pm
I can't quite agree with this, it seems to me that dysphoria, if it doesn't get better can require medical transition (in adulthood) as long as the person is aware that their sex does not actually change, and they don't expect (if male) access to women's spaces or to join groups which are for females, I see no problem. I suspect that is because I think gender is subjectively real for people with certain mental and neurological issues. People need what they need to deal with their subjective realities, but these need to be seen as medical issues and coping mechanisms not self expression, and not allowed to impact on the lives and mental health of others.'Gender' as I see it (as it exists for me) is something that happens to you, it's not elective and it's indicative of the kind of issues I mentioned. As a GC feminist, I'm rather ashamed of being in this state, however I believe I can help by insisting that my psychological/neurological condition is that, and no matter what I do or wear my sex and rights don't change. I am what is referred to as agender, which is like non-conforming except that I am incapable of stating my sex, this is how I discovered I have a compulsion not a preference. 'Trans' people who are responsible and reasonable should be creating their own spaces where their fantasies or issues don't harm others.
Posted by Elizabeth
4 October, 2020 at 1:41 pm
I don’t think most GC people would dispute what you are saying. However the article isn’t about whether dysphoric people should or shouldn’t (sometimes) alter their sex markers medically to alleviate their own dysphoria. It’s whether, having done so, they can set themselves up as critics of medicalization for others, while still claiming it was good for them. And how can they be critical of gender stereotyping per se when their whole lives are often an effort to reengineer themselves into a readily identifiable simulacra of a gender stereotype? More importantly, this article is not really focused on whether anyone ever should go the “transition” route. It’s about whether people who do so can legitimately ally themselves to the gender critical cause. There’s a very strong case here that the answer is “no.”
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 4:59 pm
Well said. And if I read the article right, it's really talking to *us*, the radical feminist women and gender critical people who are already here, and exhorting us to think carefully about whom we look to for leadership and whom we platform to the world as representative of our views. In other words, she's not telling these 4 people to go away, she's asking us to be mindful of how we talk about and amplify them. I do think many of us may be a bit too concerned about what 'outsiders' think of our internal communications. We still need to talk to each other about our goal and strategies as a living political movement. The article closes with clear messages not to the 4 trans people, but to us as feminists.
Posted by Max Frances
6 October, 2020 at 3:23 pm
I agree that women should lead any feminist movement. And parents where young children are involved. However I think indoctrination can be shattered by people on 'their side' telling young people that they need to wait, that making permanent changes to their bodies is a big deal.
Posted by Belissa Cohen
5 October, 2020 at 11:04 pm
Please be aware that medical transition has been shown to be an ineffective treatment for the kind of discomfort you express. The fact that people who want to be kind to trans identified people and seek to support and help them are advocating this kind of medicalization of their discomfort as a viable treatment or cure is EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC to many of us. By raising these issues and criticizing people who support and monetize this tragic non-solution, such as Scott, Buck (and Arty Morty), we hope to prevent thousands more children and adults from being taken in by transgenderism and its ideology. When women like Buck and Scott become TRULY "gender critical," i.e., desist from saying that "transition" was a successful personal solution for them, which sets a horrendous example to the very vulnerable children Scott claims to be concerned about, then the GC feminist movement may consider that Scott is a good role model for this vulnerable population and the right person to represent GC views.
Posted by Max Frances
6 October, 2020 at 3:05 pm
What I intended to say was that if the condition of having a gender were treated as a medical, not a political issue, children wouldn't be diagnosed as 'trans' because that's against the medical definition of dysphoria, and most people would be ruled out for treatment and thus from claiming that they had a gender. Best practise would allow those people who are really distressed to get whatever is most likely to help. They tiny minority who feel they need surgery after trying everything else would be understood to be severely ill. 'Trans'/detrans people and others who know that they have an unusual coping mechanism not an identity will likely be needed to remedicalise dysphoria. Other adults would be free to do weird things to their bodies at their own expense, in the name of expressing themselves without compromising the rights or disorders of others.
Posted by Kathleen Kelly
8 October, 2020 at 5:55 am
"I agree that women should lead any feminist movement." Gee, thanks, that's so enlightened of you. And I agree that men should sit supportively in the back of any feminist movement with their mouths taped firmly shut. We don't need men, or male allies in any feminist movement and we certainly don't need their inane opinions. Men who call themselves feminists should just work among their own kind, where help is desperately needed and STFU otherwise. I am a heterosexual women who has always been opposed to separatism, but the comments from men on this article are full of shit.
"Gender dysphoria" is not real. It is a feeling of desperately mopey self-indulgence and self-pity that develops through obsessive rumination about something that isn't true, i.e. that it is possible to "change sex." It is like an induced personality disorder. It can spring into play when a person who has been told that this illusory "transition" is feasible feels disenfranchised or sad about life and wants to "escape." Young people are currently being groomed to develop "gender dysphoria." After some time this system of obsessive false beliefs may fade away, but in most cases the surgical and hormonal damage will already have been done. Consciousness-raising is the cure for "gender dysphoria."
Posted by Anonymous
26 October, 2020 at 1:57 pm
It is well known that some humans (often teens due to the hormonal explosion with body changes) can develop body dysphoria. Its why there are young people who suffer from anorexia and bulimia. Its why there are people who are convinced a limb should be amputated. Yes, that is a genuine disorder. They have a "body dysphoria". There is nothing wrong with the bodies: They are not "fat" or "overweight". They do not have limbs that don't work. People who have a disconnect with their sexed body simply have a variation of body dysphoria. It is still a mental health condition and needs to be treated as such as the first point. The difference with treatment for GD and other Body dysphoria, is the medical world does NOT affirm the delusion that someone is "fat" and needs to constantly diet to famine level or to have a limb amputated. Instead they are treated as a mental health condition. The problem with dysphoria about ones sexed body is that its become conflated with the nebulous "gender" ideology and given a "woke" name that divorces it from what it is: Body Dysphoria. There are many many people who probably don't have a body dysphoria: such as the AGP men who do nothing more than "say" they are women. Some may give lip service (literally) by adding some lipstick and makeup (hello stereotypes) but no other real effort to show they genuinely do have body dysphoria. Young teen girls are so messed up thanks to social media, they egg each other on and we get the ROGD syndrome. Many detrans are those same girls. Far fewer boys are being referred in their teens. There needs to be a proper definition of genuine sexed body dysphoria as part of a wider body dysphoria with mental health treatment immediately provided and ongoing. Those who are AGP need to be stopped. They are simply indulging in sexual fetishes and demanding everyone else agrees and validates, even to the extent of making massive and far reaching legal changes. The four individuals, who have been verbally attacked in this article, are those who have a sexed body dysphoria. They have found ways to deal with it - **as adults**. They have also realised that changing their appearance does NOT change their sex and they are making it damn clear that is the case. They know that what they have and are going through for their own personal relief must not be imposed on teens and young adults. If their voices are heard by young teens and young adults and by adults in all walks of life (eg legal, medical, parents etc) about the hell that is really involved in transitioning and this prevents others from going down this ideological route, then I welcome their voices. They are **some** of the voices of reason that absolutely need to be heard. Other Voices of Reason are women – the demographic who are being erased. We need to hear their voices, and we do. Men’s voices who are horror struck to see what is happening to their loves ones who are female. Professionals in the medical world, in Politics, in Society too. They too are voices of reason. All these voices are needed to "consciousness-raise" as a cure for Gender Ideology and to find a balance to ensure that the terms which describe WOMEN and GIRLS are retained for us and young people are not treated as a medical and social engineering experiment. yes, lets Consciousness-Raise loudly….but lets not push out voices who can help simply because they are deemed not “pure” enough.
Brilliant piece. Very courageous. The fact so many people can't critique the actual content in the article, but cry over personality, hurt feelings & tone, speaks volumes about how badly this truth needed to be out in the world. The people addressed in the article perfectly exemplified the points made and it is not an aberration for journalists to make examples of people like this. It is typical. GC people that can't understand the direct confrontation, need to look at how fast they hold to gender themselves. You cannot solidify an ideology while simultaneously resisting it. No one "transitons," they change their sex markers to conform to gender. It is reverse speak and speech that has been forced on us by those with money and power to rearrange society and ruin all attempts to hold perceptions that are true. Then, there is the issue of making "trans" cool by their conforming to sex stereotypes in the extreme and then speaking out of the other sides of their mouths that "it's not for kids," monetizing this charade and selling you on the idea that they are GC. Man, talk about grooming.
Posted by Arty Morty
4 October, 2020 at 3:34 am
Brilliant piece! Brilliantly insensitive to human beings who have undergone SRS but they're clearly not deserving of humanity right? Remember, you're defending a column that has literally taken a middle-aged woman who had so much distress about her sex that she underwent a phalloplasty that was terribly botched and that almost killed her, and this article frames it so utterly snobbishly as to LITERALLY MOCKINGLY SAY "she never received the memo that the rest of us did" and you are defending that as normal. (It is so clearly viciously MEAN GIRL you are insane to not beg for apology right now.) Jennifer Bilek, is it reasonable to mock a middle-aged woman in distress who has had a phalloplasty? Do not change the subject, do not pretend this isn't central to it. IT IS. YOU ARE BEING TERRIBLE. Address it.
Arty Morty, you are the doing the quintessential virtue signaling dance that TRA's do, except it's the gender critical brand. I have learned through years how ineffectual it is to address this indoctrination. You've been groomed.
Posted by Arty Morty
4 October, 2020 at 3:48 am
I am capable of empathizing with people who have chosen to have sexual reassignment surgeries of some degree. That is something apparently you are too radical to do, you are too angry to reach across that aisle, is that correct? I think it's crystal clear to any outsider that you are the radical: radically uncooperative, at a time when we need cooperation.
Posted by Belissa Cohen
6 October, 2020 at 10:01 pm
Empathizing with people who have "chosen" to medicalize their distress with their sexed body is one thing. My heart goes out to all those who have been sucked into this tragic ideology. But we are not discussing for whom it is appropriate to feel empathy. We are discussing whom is appropriate to champion as "gender critical," and whom, via our adulation, become our de-facto (though unchosen) spokespeople. I myself strongly champion those, such as Keira Bell and Ben, who have desisted/detransitioned from the "trans" path and now are openly discussing how deeply transgenderism harmed them personally. They send a clear and unconfused message to children and adults that medicalizing one's distress does not fix the problem, as stifled research has clearly shown. The people cited in Joey's article, however, have neither denounced the "trans lifestyle" nor have stopped saying that -- though of course OTHERS should not do it --"transitioning" has worked out great for them personally, and that they are happy with their decision. Hypocritically talking out of both sides of their mouth, they are walking, talking advertisements for the "successful trans" lifestyle even while earning points from so-called "GC feminists" for saying it's bad and wrong, and still attempting to monetize their transition, one of them through porn (which most feminists at least purport to be against). These people are grifters. Giving them our empathy is one thing. Giving them our money and our platform is quite another. As for the lived experience of former "trans" people being important to hear, I could not agree more! But why not give our platform to actual detransitioners/desisters and not to people who continue to perform the farce we are trying to expose?
Posted by kes sparhawk
12 October, 2020 at 10:37 pm
Well said. Thank you.
Posted by Lumi
24 January, 2022 at 10:07 pm
Absolutely.
Posted by Sara Pinski
4 October, 2020 at 8:41 am
Jennifer whether you realize it or not, you are a mean girl that was never given a platform in high-school, the same with this Joey. I'd bet money you never fit, so here is your chance to bulky back. I feel sorry for you both, I truly do, you are helping no one and I hope Buck sues this publisher's ass off as well as the writer.
Sara Pinski, I was prom queen You can’t see anything Joey wrote because the beam from your virtue signal is blinding you. You’ve been groomed. Buck is supporting Porn Hub (In more ways than one) while UGM is publishing a wide array of gender critical as well as other political voices, at a time of deep state censorship and they should be sued? Go splash some cold water on your face and try to pay attention to how you sound here.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 6:18 am
No one's "humanity" has been denied here. That's a preposterous claim. Joey hasn't said they aren't human, or are less human. She's said we're not doing the gender critical/radical feminist movement any favors by making them the public face of GC activism at a time when we are still struggling to get the general public to understand our fundamental principles. Newgent has made herself a public figure. She has a blog, she has posted in many forums about her experiences, and makes political critique. She raised money from gender critical women. If I'm not mistaken, and I'm quite certain I'm not, she has publicly appeared to lay blame for her decision to undergo phalloplasty on another woman, in her blog. It is a known fact that female phalloplasty is a [near-]catastrophic surgery in pretty much all cases and I think the idea that feminists should bend on our principles in order to accommodate someone's poor judgment, simply because she makes a good cautionary tale, is a strange one.
Thank you, Heidi Z. Of course no one’s humanity is in question it just helps to scream that, just like TRAs scream “transphobia” at every little uncomfortable truth that comes their way. It keeps the focus off the truth of the matter, having to self-reflect and on hurt feelings. This is so weak minded. People can’t handle real journalism anymore because no one will publish any for fear the public will meltdown like children. Welcome to journalism 2020, the year of “feel good journalism,” where everyone gets a pacifier with their subscription & leaves happy. Thank heavens there are a few publishers willing to stand above the cowering fray. Stand tall UGM & thank you.
Posted by Trunchbull
5 October, 2020 at 12:29 am
Arty, women appreciate you being on our side to some degree, but you're dropping the ball here. You sound like a TRA. Get yourself together.
Posted by Lumi
24 January, 2022 at 9:47 pm
Again with the 'Be Kind'. From a man to women. Just stop. Women don't need lessons in kindness from you. We need freedom to air our views HOWEVER much they offend you. Stay in your lane.
Posted by Elizabeth
4 October, 2020 at 4:23 am
Great points, Jennifer! So many comments here are a testament to the way that trans folks, whether nominally gender-critical or not, have conjoined their.individual narratives of personal pain with the false gender ideology that they. and their pharmaceutical overlords, seek to push upon all of society. When the author of this piece pushes back on the latter, she gets accused of being "mean" and attacking the former. This is a legitimate discussion that needs to be had, and this article makes a valuable contribution. It's not clear to me how a trans person could credibly claim to be gender critical while still insisting that their own medicalized, stereotypical gender performance has fixed their life.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 6:10 am
Beautifully said, Jennifer. I agree entirely with your comment.
Posted by Sianrose cavanagh
4 October, 2020 at 6:16 pm
Jennifer Bilek...nailed it. I am neither GC or a feminist. I keep seeing these mixed messages put out...so I could never give a definition of what either of these groups views are on trans. Its stick up for that one but not the other!
Posted by Charlotte Garrett
9 October, 2020 at 12:42 am
Spot on. Thank you.
Posted by Alan Andrew
18 October, 2020 at 2:29 pm
"No one “transitions,” they change their sex markers to conform to gender." wow, thanks. how many words have i wasted trying to pack that into a paragraph, lol.
Her pictures are of political figures, which makes them political. She has spread them on social media. Any journalist can use them for reporting or critique or reporting. It's called fair use. It's unfortunate she didn't know that as an artist and now has an issue with it but it is hardly appropriate to blame the journalist.
Posted by Penny Hersch
4 October, 2020 at 2:21 am
What the fuck? Are you shitting me? Yeah, lets hit people on the head that are trying to help kids and women. What the fuck is wrong with you Joey? You are a mean girl of butch lesbains, you help nothing, you flame hate, pathetic, you make me ashamed of being a woman and a lesbain.
Posted by Sara Pinski
4 October, 2020 at 2:04 am
How sad and pathetic, this so called journalist should be ashamed and the publisher should be worried about lawsuits, defamation of character, I hope these facts are correct. Defaming trans who are trying to bring awareness is ludacris and just plain dumb. I used to read this, but no more this is an awful article.
Posted by Arty Morty
3 October, 2020 at 10:48 pm
Strident. Purist. Proudly calling out individuals by name for wrongthink. Scathing in its tone. Unnecessarily mean to people who have experienced distress and pain. Abundant with cheap shots. Are these not the hallmarks of self-righteous woke bullshit at its absolute worst? We all agree that sex is real and that gender stereotypes are harmful. And we all agree that the best way forward is to change society -- to make it so that people who don't abide by society's gender norms can be fully integrated, happy citizens. It's utterly inhuman to refuse to recognize that there are many fellow human beings who've felt genuine distress about the sex of their bodies or the gender stereotypes that constrain them, and have undertaken measures to alleviate their distress which don't immediately align with the wider "gender critical" project to dismantle gender oppression or whatever you wanna call it. When someone's personal wellbeing is at stake, it's not their responsibility to take anyone else's political agenda or beliefs into consideration when determining the best course of action to alleviate their own personal distress. I can't imagine how utterly lacking in sympathy you'd have to be to call such people out for doing what they've done, to castigate them as ideological blasphemers. It's all the worse that you're calling these people out when they happen to be among our best allies -- supporters who have so much personally at stake who have stepped up to the plate nevertheless. No, you're not just pointing out that "true trans" isn't a thing; you're being unnecessarily, personally nasty to people who don't deserve such opprobrium. Part of NOT being insufferably "woke" is recognizing that you make progress by eschewing purity, by fostering connections with people who may only partly agree with you, or who may be on the way to aligning with your point of view but aren't there yet, or who may not be able to completely align with your view because of how their own personal experiences have differed from yours. People are complicated. You have to see allies as fully human -- never perfect, never in total alignment, but finding common cause in certain aspects -- and you have to nurture your commonalities instead of harping on your differences, or you will never have any allies at all. If you find yourself unable to make allies because you've personally insulted everyone for their impurity in the face of your most prioritized cause, have a long hard think and consider that maybe whatever activism you're engaged in isn't ever going to make any progress or do any good at all. If there's any editorial process at this website (is it just you, Dan?), it's failed miserably in printing this shite and is due for review.
Posted by Terry
4 October, 2020 at 12:55 am
Agree with you Arty. It's personal attacks dressed up as journalism? No thanks.
Posted by DC
4 October, 2020 at 2:02 am
Oops that article touched a nerve for you. Think you need to have a quiet re read and think. We must have these matters aired and free frigging speech!!! One needs to get one's logic straight and too many don't. Simple example, look at 'self id' its all self id always has been, look at those who could not cotton on to the conversion therapy agenda or dont see VSC for its intent or still dont get "cross dressing" is in law, and each of the examples, most particularly Buck, raise issues of logic, follow through, consistency and integrity. This needed said and some really need to straighten out their thoughts and pay attention to what and who they promote... And why.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 6:06 am
Smack in the middle of your 2nd paragraph you acknowledge that these people are not upholding the principles of gender criticism in their very public actions. So what exactly is the problem with speaking that truth? Speaking as a radical feminist woman, I can't accept that these are my "best allies". Are they really? Men who perpetuate harmful stereotypes about womanhood? A woman who acted deplorably toward a victim of sexual violence and who has a long history of willing and enthusiastic participation in the pornography industry that causes so much devastation to our sex? How are they "allies" to women at all, much less to the women dedicated to the fight for the liberation of our sex from oppression? I don't see it. When I interact with people with these types of views, sooner or later, it becomes quite clear that they aren't truly allies at all; they are involved for their own reasons, but the dismantling of the harmful stereotypes and institutions that oppress women and girls never seem to be among them. If by "allies" you simply mean that we disagree on 99% but agree on 1%, then maybe we need to find a different word. Coincidental passers-by perhaps.
Posted by Martin Cleaver
4 October, 2020 at 9:23 am
Hear, hear, Arty!
Posted by Turdibird
4 October, 2020 at 10:19 am
Nail on head Arty!
Posted by Meinir
4 October, 2020 at 1:08 pm
Absolutely agree with you Arty. I put a comment up above and get a response which missed totally the point. NO article should be targeting any individual in such a way. Any good points (if there are any I couldn't see them past the invective) were entirely lost.
Posted by Belissa Cohen
5 October, 2020 at 10:40 pm
The thing is, Morty, we ARE empathetic -- perhaps even more so than you are. Our hearts break for these people, and that is what is motivating us to work long and hard at this work. Women who demand an end to the false and harmful narrative of "transition" want to see children and adults presenting with "dysphoria" get REAL, EVIDENCE-BASED, true help that is scientifically proven to be safe and effective. We are APPALLED that they are being funneled through specious treatments based entirely on ideology. For profit. As I am sure you are aware, a recent clarification by the American Psychiatric Association revealed (in science that the TRAs tried mightily to stifle) this: "The American Journal of Psychiatry has issued a major correction to a recent study. The Bränström study reanalysis demonstrated that neither “gender-affirming hormone treatment” nor “gender-affirming surgery” reduced the need of transgender-identifying people for mental health services. Fad medicine is bad medicine, and gender-anxious people deserve better." Morty, it seems like I've heard you say that science is important to you. Why are you advocating that it is in any way allowable for members of our community to become walking medical experiments for the Transgender Industry? I thought you were better than that. I am disappointed to see you trashing women who are motivated out of grave concern for lesbian and gay male children and adults. Which Buck Angel and Scott Rogers do not seem to share. If they really wanted to save kids from being caught up in the trans machine, they would speak more honestly about why they do not advocate "transitioning" instead of continuing to try to profit from it. Especially via porn.
Posted by Belissa Cohen
5 October, 2020 at 10:46 pm
Sorry, Scott Newgent. Wrong last name!
Posted by Letitia Nibbles
9 October, 2020 at 12:04 pm
Thanks for manly telling off the womenz, Mr Man. Yes, it was brutal but you are even worse. How nasty and misogynistic you are alongside some personal insults.
Posted by Lumi
24 January, 2022 at 9:40 pm
This whole comment is just 'Be Kind' dressed up.
Arty is one of the nastiest males out there, promoting "Poppers" for young men on twitter frequently and LOVES when people bring this up to him. Will cuss you out privately if you call him out on this. Disgusting male who invades womens' spaces to talk about his VULGAR descriptive sex life (loosing up his a$$hole for dic*s to be shoved in it) to an ALL women Zoom call.
Posted by Germaine Firestone
3 October, 2020 at 9:49 pm
YES YES YES FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT! I'm sick of arguing about why Blaire is bad when ALL MEN WHO PRETEND THEY'RE WOMEN ARE BAD. There's no such thing as a transwoman, they're just men. When women were falling all over Fionne I thought I was in the twilight zone! Thank you for this brilliant article.
Posted by Rene
3 October, 2020 at 8:56 pm
Spot on and very much needed. I too feel it's hypocritical to follow, like & laud trans critical people; especially ones who crowd fund for surgeries. I applaud you for being brave enough to speak your mind on this issue that so many of us agree with. And I support your right to say so as freedom of speech. There will be no cancel culture in the GC movement. There is no democracy without freedom. Keep speaking up!
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 5:58 am
Absolutely. Orlander had the nerve to charge an antifeminist surgery to "GC" women. I will go to my grave wondering how so many fell for it.
Posted by prayingforyou
3 October, 2020 at 6:10 pm
Transphobic and sad. "cRiTiCaL" people with gender identity issues need to stop taking them out on the trans community. I'm praying for you. Have a blessed one
Posted by Letitia Nibbles
9 October, 2020 at 12:02 pm
Personally I'm praying for all the biological girls and women being pushed out of sports, for all the female prisoners being raped by transgenders like Karen White. I'm praying for women and families being pushed out of shelters in Scotland for not wanting to share a room with transgenders still with male appendages. I'm praying for all the young lesbians being coercively raped by the TRA cotton ceiling rhetoric but go off misogynistic handmaiden / incel.
Posted by Anonymous was a woman
3 October, 2020 at 5:28 pm
Too many women out there who call themselves radical feminists say they want liberation, but they don't. They don't want it enough to do what it takes to free themselves from their oppressors. They want to have "liberation" and keep their emotional dependence on men. They have bought into the idea that they can't succeed at feminism without male help and approval. They latch onto "male allies" and constantly shower them with praise, attention, and money, while many of the women these feminists claim to represent struggle in dire poverty and no one gives a single shit. When male allies mistreat a woman and she dares to complain, radical feminists leap to defend him while either ignoring her or shouting her down. For a group which is supposed to be about liberating women, they sure are invested in worshipping dick owners. It's all about sucking up to those with popularity and power.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 5:57 am
Self-ID seems to apply even to radical feminism :( It's a sad state of affairs. True radical feminism does not pander to dick, past or present.
Posted by Coll
3 October, 2020 at 5:22 pm
Great article, needed said. Well done. Keep it up.
Posted by D. Roche.
5 October, 2020 at 2:35 pm
An uncomfortable but very neccessary article . We cant fight what we object to and at the same time prop up those very things with a centreing of individuals who say one thing yet do another.Its cognitive dissonance. Genderists are not collapsing their own ideology by sitting on the fence .Neither are the feminists who say these people are ' allies'.
Posted by DC
3 October, 2020 at 3:44 pm
Excellent. Spot on. Completely agree, and been on this page for years. The grifters must be recognised for what they are. (No gilding of turds either, most shart is straightforward shart). :)
Posted by MandyJane
3 October, 2020 at 3:26 pm
I'm really fed up with people saying that being friends with, or appreciating what some trans people have contributed, is somehow "idolizing" them. It's just so insulting and immature. I won't be told who I can and can't hear in this discussion. It is natural that trans people will want a voice, and there's nothing wrong with hearing them out. We will never agree with anyone on every issue, I don't even agree with the people I love the most in the world on every issue. Articles like this amount to bullying. It's a form of peer pressure to make us afraid of being ostracized by other GC women. I refuse to participate in this purity nonsense.
Posted by Meinir
3 October, 2020 at 2:44 pm
Good grief. As if its exhausting enough trying to combat the ridiculous ideas that the TRAs and the rest of the Alphabetical Soup Adherents are pushing, we get an article from a so called "Gender critic" bashing and attacking FOUR voices simply because they are Trans. Trans as a descriptor is perfectly acceptable. It clearly states what the person is and does not deny their actual biological sex. ALL four of these actually brave people are pushing that truth: - Humans have two sexes and thats it. - Changes to bodies do not make one "change sex". - That "Gender" is being conflated with "Sex" and that is wrong. - That laws must be based on the biological facts that there are only two sexes. Identify how you want, but don't make policy based on it. - That children (under 18) must not be subjected to any drugs or treatment that pauses or stops proper puberty. - That children should NOT be taught that they can be any "gender" they want to be. Trying to push theses four out of the discussion because they are Trans will not help the gender critics cause whatsoever. It will simply prove to those who are sort of on the fence about some of the more ridiculous claims, that maybe the TRAs are right and GC are demanding the erasure of the Trans community (which is ridiculous). Many militant TRAs DO push these voices, and others like them, out calling them vicious names and epithets. Your argument would apply to men who are not at all Trans but who are using their voices to highlight that Women's sex based rights are under threat. This article is rubbish and looking for an argument where there isn't one. If the ridiculous notions are to be fought properly, sensible Trans voices need to be heard. They know what its like to have gender dysphoria, to go through all the operations, to have the anxiety of the condition. They are best place to see through the absurd rhetoric for what it is. Far better than most. You should retract this and apologise.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 5:53 am
The idea that men who hold a diagnosis of "gender dysphoria" are better placed to be in this discussion than radical feminists is patently absurd. But besides that, what you list in this comment is not what 'gender criticism' is. Gender criticism is not a mere insistence on the immutability of biological sex. It criticizes the collation of sex-linked lists of stereotypes and then hooking those to each sex and punishing women for not submitting to femininity. What Joey rightfully points out here is that people who buy into these stereotypes to an enormous degree, leveraging them through a 'transition' process in order to be perceived or to perceive themselves as members of the sex they [in these cases concede they] are not, is not 'gender critical'. "GC" isn't shorthand for "I know there are two immutable sexes". Yet that is how you appear to be interpreting it.
Posted by Meinir
4 October, 2020 at 1:05 pm
The main point of my comment was that this was attacking 4 Trans people direct. None of whom were given notice in advance of publication and therefore were not given any chance to defend themselves. Comments from them on social media has been heartbreaking. All of them are known to speak up against the ridiculous assertions of the TRAs community where it impacts on biological females - women and girls. I see no reason why such an article should have been targeting such people in such a nasty, spiteful way. Anyone supporting that attitude is going to be viewed as transphobic and any inroads into reducing the reach of the worst of the TRAs demands will slow down and could reverse such good work. Any comments the author may have made which may be useful in this debate have been entirely lost by the nasty and unwarranted attack on 4 people. They did not deserve it.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 4:41 pm
This is essentially an argument over which optics are more important: Is it better: 1) For people to see our movement accepting a degree of cognitive dissonance, internal disagreement, and hypocrisy for the sake of 'kindness' (this is subjective of course) and palatabiltiy to those who are trying to make up their minds if we are palatable enough -- or -- 2) For people to see our movement exercising rigor and rejecting hypocrisy even if it makes us less likeable, to those who are trying to make up their minds if we are consistent and coherent enough? If we follow course #1, we end up with people who are concerned with appearing not to be transphobic, who want to pander a bit to the transsexual community in return for some crumbs of 'gender critical' support. If we follow course #2, we end up with people who hold the principles of radical feminism/gender criticism sincerely and are prepared to fight for them. Sure -- some people will read this article and think it's mean. But there are other people who will read this article and respect it for the integrity and commitment that it shows, and lack of hypocrisy. I would not be a radical feminist if it were yet another politics of cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is what peaks people in the first place. We're not that. We're this.
Good points! I too view this article as a reading of the ways trans-identified men are in a sense capturing or controlling the opposition to genderism. The way our concepts lead thought is significant and we can include all comers while also recognizing these various threads of fashining the resistance to transmania https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZfjWyiNmCw&ab_channel=Women%27sHumanRightsCampaign(WHRC)
Heidi z. Your comments here in-general are terrific but this one in particular is sterling. Thank you for your contributions.
Posted by Heidi Z
8 October, 2020 at 1:13 pm
Thank you Jennifer!
Posted by Alan Andrew
18 October, 2020 at 2:14 pm
Beautifully articulated, thank you very much.
Posted by Lumi
24 January, 2022 at 9:35 pm
I've also noticed that some women seem to defer to trans men in the same way they (presumably) defer to men, even while calling themselves 'gender critical'. Makes me sad.
Posted by Kes Sparhawk
13 October, 2020 at 4:34 pm
Thank you, Meinir. I too hold to basic standards of honest writing; like not smearing people for motives, while critiquing them for actions. "Gender critical" is a wide tent -- wider than radical feminism by itself, to start -- and to say "my interpretation is the only correct one" is I GUARANTEE not a radical feminist statement. I do not support the trans religion, but it appears we're inventing another one which is not subject to proof, just faith.
Posted by Belissa Cohen
5 October, 2020 at 10:16 pm
The MAIN reason we don't want GC feminists join with women like Buck Angel and Scott Rogers is because it sends a dangerous and confusing message to the 75% of the kids and teens who are being transed right now who are girls and young women. It is dangerous and confusing for these girls to hear Buck and Scott saying, "Transition is bad! Don't do it, girls! It worked for us, but don't YOU do it." They completely contradict any healthy message we are trying to send to these girls. Neither of them say that they made a mistake in transing. Neither of them are denouncing "transition" itself. Putting them forth as examples of successful "transition" directly harms vulnerable girls. Plus, Buck promotes her porn career to these girls as well.
Spot on, Belissa! Everyone is worrying about the hurt feelings of the people being discussed in the article while the real victims of their social lie are erased in this pandering sh*tshow.
Posted by Petuniacat
16 October, 2020 at 11:59 pm
Nope. Your gassing on about this and giving an order at the end is what is exhausting. You also don’t seem to understand the difference between the real world and the ‘very online‘ world. The people Joey talks about are all trying to be Internet celebrities. Them achieving that has zero impact on getting bad policies changed. And, once more, this article is about gender critical ideas and activity. A person can be opposed to men in women’s change rooms and not be gender critical. Obviously, since that change room etc thing is so weird and extreme. But this article was about gender critical stuff, so obviously it’s going to be critical of people who have created public personas based on sex stereotypes. *Sigh* It always comes down to the sex stereotypes. Some people recognize that they are bad and other people are all shruggy about that. A person can be shruggy. But then they’re not part of the gender critical movement. And that’s OK. But they can’t expect us gender criticals to have *their* opinions.
Posted by Chester
3 October, 2020 at 12:30 pm
This really does come across as being short sighted and petty. If some dude wants to look like a princess, I don't care as long as he doesn't do it in my daughter's change room. If he wants to wear a tiara while campaigning for her rights to have female-only toilets, I'd chip in if it gets the matter settled. Fighting the people who are getting the most attention is short sighted, and it won't make them go away, it just causes division.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 5:47 am
This is in fact far-sighted, the opposite of the charge you make. Joey is concerned with the overall integrity of the feminist movement, and I suspect that's a result of having watched it deteriorate over the past decades. Perhaps these things are uncomfortable to hear. But gender criticism is not limited to "stay out of women's spaces". It actually criticizes the use of oppressive means to feminize women into a subordinate social role, and the use of these same means by men to fetishize that role. If all you care about is getting a law passed that keeps the males out of the locker room, that isn't gender criticism. By all means support that law, we all do. But those of us who are radical feminists are fighting for something much bigger, and better for women, than that alone.
Posted by MommaBadger
3 October, 2020 at 11:22 am
I disagree with this article. I am not a big name in the movement, but I have seen enough to think that we need all sorts of voices fighting these genderists doctrines, whether they are our friends or not. I don't accept that there are any "true trans" but I do support many of our trans allies. What do I think that means? I don't think it means that they are secretly the opposite sex, I think they have dysphoria, and I think they chose to transtion, which is what our society tells them to do. I want to move to a place where they are seen as diversity within their own sex, and transiton (which is a lie) is not an option. But I can't expect everyone to agree with me, especially in a society where this is legal and happening. So how would I choose to move the work forward? I wouldn't to accomplish that by shitting on them when they are helping us. I choose to support them, and point out that they are not women. They are already trans and they are not going away, so we might as well use the powerful voice they have when it says TRA ideology is harmful and they don't support it. I don't agree with people criticizing Posie Parker for her make-up or her other poetical beliefs. I don't believe it when people who bitch about Glinner having said something nasty to some GC person that he shouldn't have. I don't care if the Billboard guy appears to be motivated by ego, as some say. Anyone getting something done is good enough for me then I can ignore their personality. It's not about my feeling or yours because you are mad that Fionne gets more attention than women. It sucks, but that attention is needed. I am inclined to think that people who spend time deciding who is and is not "good for GC" is motivated by their own feelings about other things. They may not paying attending to the work at hand. The work at hand is spreading the word, getting people involved. WHO is this JB person, and how many people have THEY inspired to get involved? Maybe JB does a ton of work for this movement, but I haven't heard of him. I'm just saying: all the people who are actually bringing attention to this movement get scrutinized in to pieces. I think that is wasted energy, myself.
Posted by Jane Wheeler
3 October, 2020 at 11:10 pm
JB is a butch lesbian, who has been active in LGB Rights for 30 years.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 5:43 am
For a political movement to take itself seriously it must both be willing to do and able to weather strenuous criticism both internally and externally. Otherwise it leaves itself vulnerable to being taken over by "moderates" to the point that it loses its integrity and is lost to hypocrisy. While some may favor a "as many voices as possible" approach, all we really have to do is look at what happened to 'mainstream feminism' itself to see how dangerous this is. There's no membership card for radical feminism or gender criticism, but there are principles and people who violate them as a matter of course being looked to as leadership figures is simply hypocritical. It's fundamentally harmful to radical feminism *not* to point out hypocrisy in our own movement where it happens. I applaud Joey for this article, and the depth and breadth of her experience is visible here. She is not talking about getting to the next 'win', she is talking about maintaining the integrity of feminism going forward. We need more of this, and for anyone who considers himself to be a "GC ally" to have the stomach to listen to her and others like her, and to process what she is saying here.
Posted by DC
5 October, 2020 at 1:00 am
Agree. And, a winnowing, easy to see the wheat from the chaff. You are wheat :)
Posted by Belissa Cohen
5 October, 2020 at 10:03 pm
JB HAS done a TON of work for this movement -- she organized and produced the historic and groundbreaking Can I Get A Witness? conference on Zoom just a few months ago, a 13 hour tour de force of women and men with experience in the GC trenches, including detransitioners and women who write the books and blogs we read, so much more. She has and continues to do a lot. She is more than entitled to voice an opinion many of us share.
Posted by Lyn
7 October, 2020 at 7:34 am
Echoing that JB - she, not he - is a butch lesbian, and a damn fine woman-centered activist. "Can I Get a Witness" was an impressive (and affordable!) online GC conference with a stellar lineup (including some male allies). See more info here: https://www.womenarehuman.com/can-i-get-a-witness-interview-with-organizer-of-the-virtual-event-on-gender-non-conformity-that-has-social-media-abuzz/ and lineup here: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/canigetawitness/394113. I agree 100% that these GC 'trans allies' and the GC women who laud them deserve some criticism, even though I tend to be on the moderate side and don't care if people want to present as the opposite sex, so long as they don't actually insist they are, or undermine our rights, or groom kids, or use their trans status to profit financially… which unfortunately all of the above are. JB is absolutely right about the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance undermining the integrity of the gender-abolitionist movement, and she is right to call out the (irrefutably attention-seeking) men and women who remain in denial about their ‘true trans’ identities being just as much a fiction as AGP fetishists or ROGD transtrenders (even allowing for genuine dysphoria and irreversible surgeries, which I sympathize). If not for the profiteering (and pro-porn BS), I would likely agree with JB’s critics that their perspectives are valuable, and that we all should appreciate them as genuine allies, but the fact remains that they are all successfully monetizing their advocacy for gender-abolitionists while personally reinforcing the harmful stereotypes we are trying to dismantle, which sniffs of opportunism. Much as I can appreciate GC ‘trans allies’ (I really can, and often do), they are increasingly leeching women’s attention, emotional labour AND money that could be put to better use fighting directly for women’s rights.
Posted by KateSmith
16 January, 2022 at 2:11 pm
There is no such thing as "trans." No one has ever "transitioned." The whole thing is a scam, from top to bottom. If there is no such thing as "trans," then there cannot be "trans allies." These people are mentally ill and need help. Their fake identities cannot be confirmed through acceptance as "allies." This whole thing is a giant fraud. There is no need for "allies." These people need medication and intensive therapy, not affirmation in any way. Blaire White in particular is a pathetic joke. He needs a haircut and lip filler dissolvers.
Posted by Alice Moss
2 October, 2020 at 9:34 pm
Just to add an observation that Birdy as an artist has artistic license to draw whoever she chooses and I don’t think it ever occurred to Birdy that she’d be judged for her choices of subject. I think she just does it for the pure joy, with the best intention, and also perhaps because someone has said or done something that’s resonated with her, for whatever reason.
Posted by Belissa Cohen
5 October, 2020 at 9:59 pm
I myself wrote to Birdie Rose recently when purchasing one of her wonderful Magdalen Berns t-shirts making the same point the author expressed regarding deifying Buck Angel. So she does know that the women who make up the base of her supporters and the ones who are the market for her art disagree with her making art about people such as Buck Angel and Fionne. She is not unaware. I do agree that she can OF COURSE make art about anything/anyone she chooses. And I personally did support her and buy from her. However, perhaps she will listen if more women/purchasers vote with our wallets.
Posted by Letitia Nibbles
9 October, 2020 at 11:57 am
She also obviously makes art for money which is normal for an artist.
Posted by Alice moss
2 October, 2020 at 9:19 pm
I totally see where you’re coming from. Its an internal battle I have so great to have it voiced and recorded on paper to consider. It serves as an overview for women who believe themselves “true” GC & who also assume men and women who “trans” for whatever reason, do have valid voices that can be heard as allies. It’s another layer on the GC onion to be peeled away.
Posted by Laix Khan
2 October, 2020 at 8:52 pm
Where are the example of GC people doing any of these things you suggest....GC does not endorse transing children, validation via passing, ‘true-trans’ s as concept or endorsing trans-gender ideology....
Posted by Belissa Cohen
2 October, 2020 at 9:11 pm
Laix -- Did you not read the very piece you are commenting on? In this very piece is a tweet from GC feminist Kathleen Stock lauding the "trans" identified male Fionne Orlander for being a star and promising to contribute to his facial feminization surgery fund. Below that is artwork by GC feminist Birdie Rose deifying Buck Angel. They are doing EXACTLY what Joey Brite is talking about, which you say NEVER HAPPENS. Your denial is a bit comical given its proximity (a matter of inches!) to these examples.
Posted by Heidi Z
4 October, 2020 at 5:37 am
Indeed it happens all the time. The responses on twitter to this very article are full of the very same.
Posted by Lumi
24 January, 2022 at 7:37 pm
If you watch ANY Youtuber talking to kinda-detrans people (notably 'Isaac'/ 'Vanity', Watson, Mars and the rest) then look at the comments you'll see hundreds of messages from (apparently) GC people lauding the 'bravery', and 'intelligence' and indeed- the looks, voices, and every single other aspect of the trans/ detrans individual like a lot of very proud parents at a school play. The fact that a number of people appear to have faked transing (or detransing), or faked being allied to GC people for their own weird reasons, or flip-flop between all the camps regularly, seems to escape them. I feel many of these people just enjoy the limelight and the praise and will do almost anything to keep on getting it, frankly.
As someone who had gender dysphoria as a kid I was confused when Joey first talked to me about this. I misunderstood and thought she was suggesting there is no such thing as a mental health issue where people feel uncomfortable with their biological sex. Once she clarified I 100% agree, we need to stop accepting the absurd and harmful idea that there are "true trans."
Posted by Belissa Cohen
2 October, 2020 at 9:01 pm
Erin, I watch a lot of your videos. I watched one last night. You seem to waffle on this issue -- I have seen you openly allow that some individuals ARE "true" trans, while here you seem to say that you do not believe in the concept of "true trans." Which is it? I would love to be able to share your videos widely on the dozen-plus RadFem and GC Facebook pages on which I am active, but I refuse to be complicit in promoting this flawed and harmful ideology. I wish that you would consistently feel the same way, as you do have a certain amount of influence.
Posted by Diane Reece
3 October, 2020 at 11:44 am
Erin was kicked out of a gc group on mewe for outing herself as an mra, it shattered the group. She also has some pretty weird ideas about people with DSD and has previously called them hermaphrodites, I tried to help her understand but she chose to put out a post saying I was mean and attacking her for no reason. Just my experience.
I have to admit being baffled about shattering a mewe group. I don't even know what mewe is. Oh Diane, I remember you. I remember the discussion. You don't cut anyone any slack. It is unfortunate. Many of us are doing are best trying to figure all this out. I have made mistakes and will admit that I still have a lot to learn.
Posted by Diane Reece
5 October, 2020 at 2:58 am
I cut everybody slack, just not those who talk bullcrap and refuse to listen to the words of those who they are being abusive about. You spent hours telling me that it was fine to call those who have a DSD , hermaphrodites. Despite being told it was both a misnomer and pejorative. You can lie about mewe all you want. I was there, I was part of the group that you fractured with your mra nonsense
I blocked you on FB because you were harassing me. It is amazing to me that you still feel the need to go after me. I did not spend hours discussing DSD, I shared some information, then I blocked you for being abusive. Please move on, if we are going to save the kids we need to focus on them.
I get it Erin! I use the term "real trans" as well, especially when comparing to AGP and other perversions... and there are "real" trans and those who aren't... while at the same time there is no such thing as "trans" realistically! So don't let anyone get to you! Some folks are always looking for negatives to complain about and whine about... just ignore them. Even though I lived 20+ years AS trans-identified and 30+ years IN the lgbTQia+ Cult... I am STILL LEARNING about the why's that I transitioned and detransitioned... as well as same-sex attraction vs denying your design. So I get it! It is okay to be uncertain and you dont always have to be right... not even when you are! ;-)